Grumpy monster is grumpy

[beckymonster]

Okay, somethings I can do something about. Such as my opinions as to certain things that I see cropping up. Everyone is entitled their own opinions and mine seems to be wildly divergent from the accepted norms. There might also be a twinge of jealousy thrown in for good measure but that's by the by.

AHEM

No, what has gotten up my nose was a random comment that compared the impact of Casablanca on popular culture, to that of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

....

o_O

Now, what I saw of Buffy, The Vampire Slayer, I very much enjoyed. Any show that puts a librarian front and centre gets props from me. But it is *nowhere* near the brilliance of Casablanca.

Buffy was of it's time. Not to mention quite... 'niche'. Not everyone is conversant with American high schools and youth culture (jeez, I sound like I'm 900 years old!) Casablanca, on the other hand, is timeless (okay, it ain't exactly Hello Dolly but it's pretty damn close;)). I admire Whedon as much as the next fangirl but some persepective please?!

If people are using Buffy quotes for movie titles or for whole story in about another thirty years then perhaps the point is relevant. Until then stfu and watch movies that predate Star Wars!

To finish off this rant, if you do think that Buffy The Vampire Slayer is a better story than Casablanca then... well, you know where the de-friend button is, don't you?

Comments

[spiletta42.livejournal.com]

I think you're comparing apples to porcupines. One's a self-contained classic movie, the other's a television show about vampires, and there are fifty-odd years between. I don't think "better" is relevant. I do think they've had comparable cultural impact in that they are both heavily quoted and frequently referenced in pop culture, so it's valid to say that Buffy is like Casablanca in that regard.

Obviously the old one has accumulated more such references, while the younger one has yet to prove its staying power, but they're both a solid cut above average in their own genres and have had a lasting impact on their audiences. But it's not fair to compare a television show to a movie, because the two genres have different strengths and weaknesses, and different goals. They're completely different forms of storytelling.

A brilliant movie has the full attention of its audience for two hours, and then that's it. The story is a self-contained unit, and if it's done right, the audience will think about it later, but there's not more (ignore the crap movies they make today where everything has a sequel for money reasons) and the filmmaker gets to tell his story without finding a hook to draw people back, or figuring out how to balance a story when he's not even sure how much time he might have to fill with it, because he could get renewed for 22 more episodes, or canceled with barely a chance to tie up the ends.

I'm not arguing the brilliance of Casablanca is it clearly outshines anything of its kind, but give Buffy a break, because it's simply not the same art form. Give it another hundred years, and kids will be studying it in school. Remember, Shakespeare was popular entertainment in his day, too.

[becky-monster.livejournal.com]

You make some good points there.

One thing I should really clarify is that I was looking at both as stories regardless of media. So it could have been a peice of music (say 'Fur Elise' versus 'As Time Goes By'). It doesn't matter what form it takes as far as I'm concerned. It's all information regardless of the mode of delivery.

As for being that they are both heavily quoted and frequently referenced in pop culture can you furnish me with some examples re: Buffy?
I can think of perhaps a throwaway line or two in Jim Butcher's 'Harry Dresden' novels and another novel or two but other than that the brain is coming up empty.

Thanks for the counter-point though.

[spiletta42.livejournal.com]

I've heard references, but remembering them clearly enough to make an accurate list might be more than I can handle today. Heck, I'm even having trouble thinking of specific Casablanca references right now, and I know there are a million of those, including one I saw very very recently and can't place now.

I'm rubbish with pop culture outside of sci-fi/fantasy, actually, but I'll put the question to my flist and we'll probably have a pretty reasonable list in a few days.

[rainne]

I love it when I'm not the only person to tell their friends list to take a hike. ^_^

That said, I own every season of Buffy and have watched every episode more than once, but I've never seen Casablanca. Not even part of it.

In fact, I'm not 100% sure who's in it. Isn't it with Fred Astaire?

[becky-monster.livejournal.com]

In fact, I'm not 100% sure who's in it. Isn't it with Fred Astaire?

o_O

I wish I knew what film you're referring to because I is baffled!

Here, Wikipedia knows everything! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_%28film%29")

If you'll take a recommendation - try to catch it. I think it's one of the greatest romantic films ever and I usually cannot stand romances.

As for telling people where to go - not usually my style - yes, I *do* have a streak of yellow down my back;) - but the general wonderfulness of Casablanca I am quite adamant about.

Even when it gets me Sonic Screwdriver replicas shoved down the back of my trousers/pants! (long story - he is still breathing, alas)

[rainne]

Oh, Humphrey Bogart. Sorry. I'm not really into old movies that much. :\ I'll try to catch it if it's ever on TV or something.

I'm really not much of a movie watcher at all; TV shows require less of a time commitment, and I can't bring myself to sit still in front of a non-interactive screen (i.e. a television) for very long. I get antsy and bored with just having infodumps played into my brain.

That said, to rebut your argument in a friendly manner, I would have to point out that Casablanca was also, as you said, of its time, and is becoming more niche with each passing year. Social relevance is relative to society, and while the outward trappings of the story (high school, etc) might seem to have a very narrow focus, the larger arc of the story of Buffy is more relevant in my opinion. It's about kids growing up, turning into people, and people going through things that people go through. It's about the struggle to find identity in a world that largely ignores you, it's about friends and family and the ties that bind, and it's about love and sex and the sometimes mutual exclusivity of the two, and yes, it's also about demons. It's more than just a show about kids in high school.

And maybe not everyone can relate to being an AMERICAN teen/going to an AMERICAN school, but everyone has at some point been a teenager and gone through a lot of the things that you see on Buffy, so I honestly think more people can relate to that than people can relate to some amazing epic love story when most people in this world are having trouble finding Mr Right Now, much less Mr Perfect.

One final rebuttal: If people are using Buffy quotes for movie titles or for whole story in about another thirty years then perhaps the point is relevant. Until then stfu and watch movies that predate Star Wars!

I wouldn't recognize a Casablanca quote if it walked up to me on the street and slapped me on the face. I *would* however recognize a Buffy quote, and have done on many occasions. The social relevance of Buffy to Gen-X and younger people has far more impact than movies we might or might not have ever watched, because quite frankly most old movies suck ass.

YMMV of course, and I like civil disagreement so I probably won't be defriending you over this. :)